Buthaina,
Dafne, and 
Aiden,Participants:
Buthaina,
Dafne, and Aiden,
Yahoo! Messenger (12:59:17): aidenyeh has joined the conference.
dygonza (12:59:28): hi there
esl_efl_ku (12:59:39): wow, this neat
esl_efl_ku (12:59:42): hello all
aidenyeh (12:59:53): hi, have you heard from Rita?
dygonza (12:59:58): not at all
aidenyeh (12:59:59): this is cool, Buth
esl_efl_ku (13:00:13): yes indeed
aidenyeh (13:00:17): what about Arlyn?
dygonza (13:00:33): hope I do not have problems with connections YM has been quite weird this week
aidenyeh (13:00:34): my messages to Arlyn all bounced
dygonza (13:00:40): neither
dygonza (13:00:53): because you had the wrong address,Aiden
dygonza (13:01:10): there was and "l" missing at the end
aidenyeh (13:01:23): yes,
dygonza (13:01:23): it happened to me, then I fixed the address
dygonza (13:01:34): but she has not answered
aidenyeh (13:01:36): but i tried twice with the 'l'
esl_efl_ku (13:01:42): yes, this happend to me too once Aiden
dygonza (13:01:55): well, we will send them the chatlog
esl_efl_ku (13:02:00): what is the "I" plz?
dygonza (13:02:09): L
aidenyeh (13:02:20): cool
aidenyeh (13:02:27): how should we begin week 5>
dygonza (13:02:28): at the end of her e-mail ID
aidenyeh (13:02:49): i Like Daf's portal page and the first paragraph that you wrote
aidenyeh (13:02:53): we could use that
dygonza (13:02:56): I though we could post our answers to Scott
dygonza (13:03:10): then what you said about inviting people to send their pages
aidenyeh (13:03:17): yes, that's a good starting point
dygonza (13:03:27): or reflections on what they have done
esl_efl_ku (13:03:30): btw,
esl_efl_ku (13:04:01): i found that i have flagged Scott and Arnold's comments messages for follow up
dygonza (13:04:01): yes, Buth
esl_efl_ku (13:04:06): for week 5 earlier
esl_efl_ku (13:04:12): and yes
esl_efl_ku (13:04:19): i agree that it is a good start
dygonza (13:04:30): I think Scott's qustions are a good start
esl_efl_ku (13:04:32): especially that my focus is on this problem
aidenyeh (13:05:06): in our case, we could post our mini abstracts, in relation to scott's questions
dygonza (13:05:08): I like your pre and post webheads pages, buth
esl_efl_ku (13:05:20): i'm still struggling with issue , but got much better laly..
esl_efl_ku (13:05:31): thanks Daf..
dygonza (13:05:31): yes, they are already on the page, we could expand, at leat me
dygonza (13:05:54): I had no previous experience with the web before webheads
esl_efl_ku (13:06:01): i like and admire your use of the web tools
dygonza (13:06:04): so I would hve to have a black page
esl_efl_ku (13:06:13): and your amazing speed on everything so far
aidenyeh (13:06:16): black page?
dygonza (13:06:17): blank, I mean
dygonza (13:06:38): that would be a good idea
aidenyeh (13:06:40): blank page for?
dygonza (13:06:58): for my pre- webheads period on using web tools
aidenyeh (13:07:00): to present- no experience
dygonza (13:07:06): yes
aidenyeh (13:07:07): got it,
aidenyeh (13:07:08): cool
dygonza (13:07:43): only a title with my experience with web tools before joining webheads
dygonza (13:08:03): and only question marks all around
dygonza (13:08:30): what do you think?
esl_efl_ku (13:08:53): this sound good Daf
esl_efl_ku (13:09:06): what about you Aiden?
aidenyeh (13:09:07): clear meaning,
esl_efl_ku (13:09:23): Any experiences page prioir to WIa
dygonza (13:09:31): maybe with mouse over effects on each question mark where I ask questions related to online teaching and learning
aidenyeh (13:09:56): prior to webheads, I was moderating an online session (evonline) but the theme was different
esl_efl_ku (13:10:16): oopss, soory
esl_efl_ku (13:10:30): one of the experts
aidenyeh (13:10:32): I however, got involved with webheads because Vance was always the one who replied to my queries posted on evonline
aidenyeh (13:10:50): no, not really, But
dygonza (13:10:52): the importance of feedback for motivation
aidenyeh (13:10:52): Buth
esl_efl_ku (13:11:20): waht do you mean by "not really??
esl_efl_ku (13:11:49): I love feedback, Daf
aidenyeh (13:11:50): not really that high tech or what you would call computer savvy
esl_efl_ku (13:12:00): and I think it is crucial for this area
aidenyeh (13:12:03): likfe you and Daf, I learned by doing
esl_efl_ku (13:12:10): especially for novice teachers like me
dygonza (13:12:21): yes, Vance is the perfect model to follow
aidenyeh (13:12:32): that's what i did
aidenyeh (13:13:05): and applied what I've learned from evonline and vance in my teaching
esl_efl_ku (13:13:06): Got you Aiden, an this is what I like about our Cop
dygonza (13:13:07): you know, I jumped form having done nothing to designing and moderating my own online course
esl_efl_ku (13:13:18): where the experts and the trainees melt in a pot
esl_efl_ku (13:14:03): Yes, i know Daf, and this is why i think you are amazing
dygonza (13:14:06): and it was not difficult, I just followed on VAnce's modelling
esl_efl_ku (13:14:15): you are a genius, Daf
aidenyeh (13:14:20): the point that I would like to raise is it worthwhile for non-native speakers teachers of english to be engaged in such a commun ity and why?
dygonza (13:14:27): comm'n Buth
esl_efl_ku (13:14:54): yes, and this is what I didn't do from the begiining and put myself in a terrible situation
dygonza (13:14:57): of course my previous experience in f2f teaching, and my methodology helped a lot
aidenyeh (13:15:09): remember Nigel saying "it's time consuming"
esl_efl_ku (13:15:11): the step by step approach is effective
dygonza (13:15:28): it indeed is
dygonza (13:15:41): but planning f2f is also time consuming
dygonza (13:15:52): it all depends on your approach
esl_efl_ku (13:15:58): that's why i tried to start all over again (the 7 weeks) during ummer
dygonza (13:16:11): I like what you are doing Buth
esl_efl_ku (13:16:11): and still in the process
dygonza (13:16:19): we are all in the process
dygonza (13:16:28): I love Aiden's projects
dygonza (13:16:44): especially your work with listening, Aiden
dygonza (13:17:04): I need to learn about using songs
esl_efl_ku (13:17:11): Yes, indeed Aiden's work in that area is brilliant
aidenyeh (13:17:18): I need to check my pages and for links
dygonza (13:17:33): putting up pages with audio is something I need to get involved in
dygonza (13:18:00): I need to know what page do you want to link from your name on our first week 5 page, Aiden
esl_efl_ku (13:18:05): I tI think I had linked once Aiden's work somewhere in my page
aidenyeh (13:18:12): are you referring to Micahel's or the favorite songs video
esl_efl_ku (13:18:17): but becuase I sytarted all over again,
esl_efl_ku (13:18:30): I will find a better way of linking it now
dygonza (13:18:59): I have all your listening pages saved for future references, Aiden
aidenyeh (13:19:05): i'll give you details (urls ) tmorrow
dygonza (13:19:13): thanks, Aiden
dygonza (13:19:20): ok, back to week 5
esl_efl_ku (13:19:21): I can't remebr Aiden, toomany info. lately blocked my mind
dygonza (13:19:27): lol
esl_efl_ku (13:19:37): I will find the page and send you it to you
aidenyeh (13:19:38): 1) start off with scott's question
esl_efl_ku (13:19:44): yes
esl_efl_ku (13:19:55): I'm like Mr. Bean remeber
dygonza (13:19:56): 2. ask for pages or work done
esl_efl_ku (13:20:00): this is what my kids say
aidenyeh (13:20:02): 2) our experiences using daf's portal + we could expand
aidenyeh (13:20:12): that's would be three daf
dygonza (13:20:17): ok
dygonza (13:20:29): 3. ask for pages and work done
aidenyeh (13:20:39): 4)
aidenyeh (13:20:42): ?
esl_efl_ku (13:21:04): What about personal reflection
esl_efl_ku (13:21:18): I like your self-evaluation Daf..
aidenyeh (13:21:20): remember, I'd like to point the relevance of this CoP to NNS this could wait till the very last days
dygonza (13:21:27): that would be in our reports
esl_efl_ku (13:21:29): the page including the table I would like to adapt
dygonza (13:21:44): why don't we set some chats with issues
dygonza (13:21:50): like that of NN-NN
dygonza (13:22:00): I mean NN-N
esl_efl_ku (13:22:01): yes
esl_efl_ku (13:22:08): this is good
esl_efl_ku (13:22:12): but how
esl_efl_ku (13:22:30): oopss.sorry,,Chat
dygonza (13:22:34): maybe write a short abstract inviting people
esl_efl_ku (13:22:37): yes..okay
aidenyeh (13:22:38): issues, such as?
dygonza (13:22:48): the one Aiden has in mind
dygonza (13:22:58): non-native vs native speakers
dygonza (13:23:05): in teaching, I mean
esl_efl_ku (13:23:29): yes, Aiden there is an IS on this issue
dygonza (13:23:32): and Aiden will be the speaker
esl_efl_ku (13:23:38): Ijoined it once
dygonza (13:23:54): Aiden is the expert on this topic
esl_efl_ku (13:23:54): but didn't continue..was not interesting enough
dygonza (13:24:02): Aiden, are you there
aidenyeh (13:24:12): yes, am listening
dygonza (13:24:29): what do you think about the idea?
aidenyeh (13:24:39): don't you think it's a bit heavy foir the middle of next week?
dygonza (13:24:50): I don't know
aidenyeh (13:24:54): LOL
esl_efl_ku (13:25:00):
dygonza (13:25:07): today we had a very nice discussion about CoP's at TI
esl_efl_ku (13:25:12): I think it a hot topic
aidenyeh (13:25:12): do you have an idea of what Rita wants to present
dygonza (13:25:19): no
aidenyeh (13:25:27): it is Buth,
aidenyeh (13:25:33): but we have to consider the flow of topics
dygonza (13:25:44): very interesting in a community where most of us are non-native
aidenyeh (13:25:57): so far, we're stuck with 4, this would mean Wed or Thursday next week
aidenyeh (13:26:11): yes, true daf
dygonza (13:26:27): let's make it by days
dygonza (13:26:41): monday: answer to Scott's questions
aidenyeh (13:26:43): 1- monday scott's question
dygonza (13:26:46): lol
aidenyeh (13:27:00): we're in the same frequency
dygonza (13:27:03): that would be 5 messages 1 from each of us
dygonza (13:27:13): to start with
dygonza (13:27:35): we could end our answers with our own questions to the audience
dygonza (13:28:02): what was the second point?
dygonza (13:28:10): for tuesday
esl_efl_ku (13:29:16): experiences using your portalDa
esl_efl_ku (13:29:28): I mean your portal Daf
dygonza (13:29:38): you mean, my online architecture course?
dygonza (13:29:46): or what?
aidenyeh (13:29:49): portal for week 5
dygonza (13:30:23): ah , my pre- andpost webhead?
esl_efl_ku (13:30:24): yes
aidenyeh (13:30:47): ok, so 2-Tuesday experiences before and after
aidenyeh (13:30:56): plus our own pages
dygonza (13:31:00): fine
aidenyeh (13:31:10): and we'll ask them to share with us their own pages
aidenyeh (13:31:15): what if there's no onw
aidenyeh (13:31:17): one
aidenyeh (13:31:27):
dygonza (13:31:30): I am sure there will be at least on
aidenyeh (13:31:38): tere?
aidenyeh (13:31:40): LOL
esl_efl_ku (13:31:41):
dygonza (13:31:45): Tere and Sus
esl_efl_ku (13:31:50): common guys, be optimistic..
aidenyeh (13:31:50): or sus?
dygonza (13:31:51): maybe Chris
aidenyeh (13:31:54): LOL
esl_efl_ku (13:31:59): I'm sure many will like it
aidenyeh (13:31:59):
aidenyeh (13:32:14): seriously
esl_efl_ku (13:32:14): especially that we have many nebies latelaly
dygonza (13:32:36): I will encourage Maria to post something
dygonza (13:32:42): and Arnold too
aidenyeh (13:32:44): arnold
esl_efl_ku (13:32:49): I'm sure I will be ther LOL
dygonza (13:32:50): we chat a lot frequently
dygonza (13:33:47): that would take us 2 days
dygonza (13:33:54): tuesday and wednesday
aidenyeh (13:33:58): ok, that's two- experiences- before and after webpages
aidenyeh (13:34:14): thrusday? 3-
dygonza (13:34:19): so, for Thursday we plan the Nn-N chat with our guest speaker,Aiden
aidenyeh (13:34:45): sounds scary
dygonza (13:34:59): no, you have a lot of materials
dygonza (13:35:09): and things to share
aidenyeh (13:35:10): the feeling, i mean
dygonza (13:35:42): we can start inviting since Tuesday, with a nice and enticing invitation
aidenyeh (13:35:55): Thursday, chat but could be followed up by posting messages
esl_efl_ku (13:36:01): You mean before and after webheads or webpages,Aiden
dygonza (13:36:03): right
aidenyeh (13:36:07): the invitation would coome in as a question to the members?
aidenyeh (13:36:32): after webpages, so NS-NNS will be oin Thursday
esl_efl_ku (13:36:54): okay..
dygonza (13:36:55): monday: scott's questions, tuesday and Wed. pre- and post webheads and asking participants to share their pages
dygonza (13:37:14): thursday chat with aiden with post chat comments to list
aidenyeh (13:37:40): friday?
dygonza (13:37:46): that would go for thursday and friday
aidenyeh (13:37:56): remember, some of these topic might overlap on some days
dygonza (13:38:06): sure they will
dygonza (13:38:33): and Saturday and Sunday wrap up chats at Tapped In at the usual time
dygonza (13:38:45): I think we have enough
esl_efl_ku (13:39:02): A question:
dygonza (13:39:03): other sub-topics will show up along the way
aidenyeh (13:39:24): we could stretch the main topics
aidenyeh (13:39:29): yes, besides
esl_efl_ku (13:39:30): okay,
aidenyeh (13:39:39): arlyn's and rita's abstrat are on the portal page
dygonza (13:39:45): I will try to join when you guys have your chats
dygonza (13:39:49): yes, they are
aidenyeh (13:39:56): so that would fall on Mon- - Wed
dygonza (13:40:03): yes
aidenyeh (13:40:18): Thursday chat would be
dygonza (13:40:19): I think we have a lot of things to share, there are 5 of us here
dygonza (13:40:56): I will post the week syllabus on our activities page
aidenyeh (13:41:08): anytime in the afternoon (Taiwan time)
aidenyeh (13:41:23): or evening regular webhead time?
dygonza (13:41:23): GMT?
aidenyeh (13:41:40): but that would exclude some, esp those in the US
aidenyeh (13:42:02): that would be an hour and half chat time
dygonza (13:42:17): Aiden, what about creating an invitation to the chat using one of this card creators online, like yahoo, hallmark, or whatever
dygonza (13:42:37): great, Aiden, 90 min. sounds very good
aidenyeh (13:42:38): cool
dygonza (13:43:10): that card will give a speacial touch to the chat
dygonza (13:43:20): more personal, and enticing
aidenyeh (13:43:45): yes
aidenyeh (13:43:58): will create it this weekend
dygonza (13:44:00): we can also set the yahoo calendar to remind of the chat
aidenyeh (13:44:18): great
dygonza (13:44:53): we could also use the calendar to remind of Saturday and Sunday usual webheads chats
aidenyeh (13:45:31): ok, let's do it
aidenyeh (13:45:40): wait, i'll write everything down
dygonza (13:45:41): so, what we have to do is work on our individual tasks
dygonza (13:45:55): it is going to be in the chatlog, Aiden
aidenyeh (13:46:00): update webpages, before and after
dygonza (13:46:19): answer scott's questions
aidenyeh (13:46:24): no, write in my notebook (it's a bad habit)
dygonza (13:46:28): ok
dygonza (13:46:34): a good one
aidenyeh (13:46:46): yes
dygonza (13:46:52): we have to write a kick off message for the week
dygonza (13:47:06): what about one, signed by all of us?
dygonza (13:47:46): and one, indicating the url to the week 5 web page and explaining what they will find there
aidenyeh (13:48:24): ok,
aidenyeh (13:48:37): email format ?
dygonza (13:48:41): yes
dygonza (13:49:21): I think it is better to write 2 separate messages, welcoming and instructions, so people do not get mixed up
dygonza (13:49:49): the subject of the messages will clearly indicate what the message is about for further reference
aidenyeh (13:50:31): i like the first paragraph you wrote in your portal page
dygonza (13:51:01): shall we use it for the welcoming message?
aidenyeh (13:51:14): i've got no objections
dygonza (13:51:24): Buth?
esl_efl_ku (13:51:29): either me
dygonza (13:51:41): ok, done then
dygonza (13:51:48): I will take care of it
dygonza (13:51:58): I will send it Sunday evening
aidenyeh (13:52:16): good
dygonza (13:52:23): I will indicate that another message is following with instrucctions for the week
aidenyeh (13:52:44): and will be posted on Monday
dygonza (13:52:58): that message with instructions could be also posted in our week 5 folder in yahoo group
aidenyeh (13:52:59): or will it be too late/
dygonza (13:53:08): Sunday evening too
aidenyeh (13:53:17): ok, folder is a good idea
dygonza (13:53:19): so we will be all set for monday
aidenyeh (13:53:29): ok
esl_efl_ku (13:53:42): yes, sounds excellent
dygonza (13:53:44): then on monday each of us will answer Scott's questions
dygonza (13:54:15): and of course, answer the postings from other members
esl_efl_ku (13:54:33): are our answers going to be in messages?
aidenyeh (13:54:40): yes
dygonza (13:54:40): yes
dygonza (13:54:43): lol
esl_efl_ku (13:54:54):
aidenyeh (13:55:10): ok
esl_efl_ku (13:55:17): no, listen guys, i was thinking about Daf's world map
esl_efl_ku (13:55:27): and the way i added to the activity
dygonza (13:55:28): then between tue. and wed. we will talk about our pre and ppost webheads experiencies
aidenyeh (13:55:32): is there anything else
aidenyeh (13:55:38): yes
dygonza (13:55:53): with references to our webpages
dygonza (13:56:13): on tuesday we will issue the invitation to the chat
dygonza (13:56:20): which we will prepare on Sunday
dygonza (13:56:41): then Thursday the chat, time?
dygonza (13:57:37): the time?
aidenyeh (13:57:38): 12-:1:30 GMT
dygonza (13:57:41): ok
dygonza (13:57:59): Friday answering posts from partipants
dygonza (13:58:23): and Saturday and Sunday meeting with webheads at the usual time at TI
dygonza (13:59:03): that's it
dygonza (14:00:41): any other aspect that I am missing?
esl_efl_ku (14:00:57): Daf are you goint to inform Arlyne and Rita?
dygonza (14:01:14): yes, I will send this log to them
aidenyeh (14:01:24): buth< what about the map?
esl_efl_ku (14:01:25): okay
esl_efl_ku (14:01:36): The map
dygonza (14:01:38): tell me us about the map idea, Buth
esl_efl_ku (14:02:00): oh, actually i used Daf's Spanish Paella
aidenyeh (14:02:19): ok, then should this wrap up our meeting?
esl_efl_ku (14:02:23): and would like to modify the activity usding the world map of cooking lessons by Daf
dygonza (14:02:34): great, Buth
esl_efl_ku (14:02:44): but my question is
aidenyeh (14:02:45): if there's anything else not mentioned or new, then just send an email
aidenyeh (14:02:55): ok
aidenyeh (14:03:00): listening
esl_efl_ku (14:03:03): wher can this page go?
dygonza (14:03:18): which one, Buth
dygonza (14:03:22): the map?
esl_efl_ku (14:03:29): I mean for chat discuson or on tuesdays' discusiions
dygonza (14:03:48): you include it in the mail you send to the group
esl_efl_ku (14:04:03): okay
dygonza (14:04:12): you can also use it in the chat to show people and talk about it
esl_efl_ku (14:04:22): one more thing Daf and Aiden, plz
dygonza (14:04:35): you can say so in your message so people will be interested in joining you in your chat
esl_efl_ku (14:04:36): about the chat schedule
dygonza (14:04:49): yes, you have confirmed one hour
esl_efl_ku (14:04:50): what is it exactly i am supose t do there
aidenyeh (14:05:09): what do you think?
dygonza (14:05:10): just be there, at yahoo or tapped in
esl_efl_ku (14:05:16): i mean during those day on the schedule i posted to you Daf
dygonza (14:05:20): and talk to the people,
esl_efl_ku (14:05:49): are you going to be there too/
dygonza (14:05:50): about your projects what you have learned, expand on your ideas, and ask those people to share theirs
dygonza (14:06:03): yes, I will do my best to join all the chats that week
aidenyeh (14:06:08): i've got to go, if there's anyhing that i'd be missing please advise by email
esl_efl_ku (14:06:20): thanks, as i'm already nervous..
dygonza (14:06:21): ok, Aiden I think this is all
aidenyeh (14:06:32): don't be
dygonza (14:06:33): we will see each other on Sunday at the usual time
esl_efl_ku (14:06:38): Aiden, one thing
aidenyeh (14:06:43): this would be a cool experience
aidenyeh (14:06:49): yes..
dygonza (14:06:53): if questions, just let's e-mail each other
esl_efl_ku (14:07:05): I would like to comment on your comment on the top oif this log
aidenyeh (14:07:06): sure,
dygonza (14:07:07): I am already excited
aidenyeh (14:07:12): what about/
aidenyeh (14:07:17): me too
aidenyeh (14:07:27): it's too long to scroll
esl_efl_ku (14:07:28): Well , the good thing for teachers like me
esl_efl_ku (14:07:33): i mean novice
esl_efl_ku (14:07:38): ones
esl_efl_ku (14:07:51): is that in WIA we have both kind expets
esl_efl_ku (14:08:01): those like Vance who got it all
esl_efl_ku (14:08:19): i mean the conventuiional teaching (f2f)
esl_efl_ku (14:08:29): and like you too Aiden
esl_efl_ku (14:08:38): in addition to those like Daf
esl_efl_ku (14:08:49): qho has the conventional f2f one
esl_efl_ku (14:09:29): and are showing us how it helped her produce and creatre greta proahes for the vertual teachings
esl_efl_ku (14:10:02): sorry about the long chat
dygonza (14:10:07): that's what a CoP is like
aidenyeh (14:10:20): that's alright
esl_efl_ku (14:10:24): it's really a Melting Pot
esl_efl_ku (14:10:43): of both or all kind of people
aidenyeh (14:10:45): i think that's what week 5 is about
esl_efl_ku (14:10:55): that's why 'm excited too
dygonza (14:10:57): right, Aid
esl_efl_ku (14:10:59): I love guys
aidenyeh (14:11:01): showing people who haven't tried how we did it
esl_efl_ku (14:11:19): i'm really blessed to have met you and wish to meet with you f2f one day
aidenyeh (14:11:21): so they will try to
dygonza (14:11:33): and then they will show others
aidenyeh (14:11:39): one day.... Buth... one day
aidenyeh (14:11:54): trickle down effect
aidenyeh (14:12:02): in marketing-applies here too
esl_efl_ku (14:12:02): I meant above: I love you guys
dygonza (14:12:12): our stories reporting our findings and reflections are fundamental in the learning process that takes place in our community
aidenyeh (14:12:28): family time is calling
aidenyeh (14:12:34): i need to tuck in my kids
dygonza (14:12:36): because they are done with loving care
aidenyeh (14:12:45): exactly
dygonza (14:12:46): I have to do some shopping too
aidenyeh (14:12:50): i couldn't have said better
esl_efl_ku (14:12:54): sure Aide, and say hello to hubby, hope he is better now.
aidenyeh (14:12:55): good for you
aidenyeh (14:13:07): he's ok, it's my f-i-l
dygonza (14:13:11): nice chat, very fruitful
aidenyeh (14:13:18): indeed
esl_efl_ku (14:13:31): f-i-l ??/
dygonza (14:13:33): bye Aiden
esl_efl_ku (14:13:34): is who?
dygonza (14:13:37): father in law
esl_efl_ku (14:13:48): oh, sorry
esl_efl_ku (14:13:53): Aiden..
esl_efl_ku (14:13:58): tod you>.
dygonza (14:14:00): bye guys
esl_efl_ku (14:14:10): bye
dygonza (14:14:16): bye, Buth, write if questions
esl_efl_ku (14:14:19): and thank you
dygonza (14:14:25):
aidenyeh (14:14:28): thanks you too
esl_efl_ku (14:14:30): okay thanks Daf
aidenyeh (14:14:31): adios
dygonza (14:14:36): adios
esl_efl_ku (14:14:42):
adios amigo
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